My Category

March 26, 2008 at 3:03 pm (My Category)

 It is hard to find category and title for where I best fit. I believe I don’t fit anywhere where my conscience doesn’t allow. I find these parts to do with self promotion as vague if it were to be nothing or an essay, it is fact, people will tell you what they want you to know. Even when stating “this is all of meeeeeeeeeee” it can still be a possibility that it isn’t. I don’t think we know ourselves to the ultimate extent of knowing oneself can get, simply because I don’t believe the process brings one to a destination. Not in this life, anyway.

You may wonder why or how I speak of certain topics and post what I find in the rest of the time that can be allocated on here. It is reason enough, share what you learn. Not teach what you learn, impose what you learn, share. The whole point of sharing is that it can either be taken or ignored. One without the other is dictatorship and regardless of which action or thought, there is punishment through judgement we place on each other. It can stunt the next step or it can enlighten, the choice will always be yours and your intentions.

Selfishly speaking, I like to write about what I don’t see much of if at all. Even still, it is still my voice you read and where it is not my voice, it is evident who else it belongs to. Subjects and matters which interest me are vast and I’m still learning of new ones which fascinate me too. I don’t expect a pat on the back or a slap in the face, that doesn’t mean I won’t ever feel either.

You could take this as a disclaimer for the sake of preventing misinterpretation, even then it is no a guarantee.

I was, still am, and hope to be, a human being, a Muslim, a female, a daughter, a wife, a sister, a niece, a cousin, a friend, a mother and most of all… I am still learning.

So if you ever want to know why I write about something or choose to discuss what I will, it is a link to all of the above.

Nothing more, or less.

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Opinions

March 26, 2008 at 2:50 pm (Opinions)

This Is Irritating…
*Note*
Some of you were tagged because… ento 3rab & I want your opinion

About two years ago, many Muslims around the world decided to boycott Danish products because a Danish newspaper published caricatures of Muhammed, a prophet in Islam. I was still attending university at the time, and one of my professors asked us, the students, to write an essay about this. So I did, and when it was time for his class again, I was the only one who was against it.

I wish I could type my essay here, or a summary of it, but I dont know where it is. I’d have to look through boxes to find it. I remember saying that, while I understand that some people are offended, you just can’t ask them to apologize. There’s a thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. They can say whatever they want about whomever they want whenever they want to because it’s legal to do so in Denmark. You can’t just tell a country to bend it’s law just because you don’t like something they did. I don’t care if it was about Muhammed, Jesus, Moses, or Buddah himself. The idea of asking for an apology is outrageous!

People are really taking it seriously in Saudi Arabia. I keep getting more than one email everyday from friends telling me to “boycott Danish products”. I didnt do that two years ago, and I wont do it today. If you want to talk about religion, then it is against Islam to cause harm to others who didnt do a thing to you. The long list of companies which you plan to boycott have nothing to do with the newspaper. So boycotting their products will harm their sales, and that affects the employees who have families to feed.

For those of you who believe the newspaper should be shut down, then shame on you. I believe in media without censorship. No exceptions and no restrictions. How else are we supposed to get the truth? I know this has nothing to do with the caricatures, but some caricatures are good and have great messages behind them. It’s an art, not just some drawing scribbled on a piece of paper. While you may not agree with what you see, it doesn’t mean that you go and boycott products and demand a public apology.

There are so many problems in the world, and some people keep creating a problem where there is none. If I was American, I’d boycott every Saudi product and demand a public apology from the Saudi government for what happened on 9/11. All conspiracy theories aside, people are still saying Bin Laden is behind it… So how come no public apology has been given?

Whenever you read about a Muslim who was abused for being a Muslim… or about people getting shipped off to Guantanamo, you become angry saying they’re out to get normal people instead of the real terrorists. But, isn’t this what you’re doing? If you really want to harm someone, why not the newspaper? What do the Danish companies have to do with this issue? The answer is: NOTHING.

So I am really irritated that two years have gone by and some people are still thinking in the same manner. I stand by the artist’s right to draw whatever he/she wants to draw, as long as it is legal in the country they’re in. Who are you to take away that right from them?

I have a right to express my own opinion on this matter. Say what you will, but to all of you who have boycotted Danish products, or plan on doing so, then you are wrong.

Why don’t you go and do something productive, like push for a solution to end the long struggle between the governments of Palestine and Israel. Why not push the US government to withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan?
Why not push the Saudi government to explain the unbelievable increase of prices? Why not find out who killed Rafiq el-Hariri? Why not try to unite Lebanon?

I guess what I’m trying to say is… why not do something good instead of doing something bad? Oh mon Dieu.. ya3ni mish momken el3alam yistamer unless we do something about it.
نحن شباب…. والعالم بيدنا…. لازم نستغل عمرنا ونعمل شيء صح
Let’s all live our life and have fun… bas ya 3alam… at the same time, let us try to make a difference. Let’s not be just another generation… Let’s be a generation that actually does something!

All of you are from various countries and have your own opinions. Dont you think that it’s time for something remarkable to happen fi el3alam? And from US. We’re all intelligent people. I know I might sound lame right now… But cant we think rationally and spread positive ideas wherever we go?

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:49pm on March 4th, 2008
First of @ll sorry for the “@”, it’s repl@cing @ key on my keybo@rd which doesn’t work.

I he@r wh@t you’re s@ying @nd th@nk you for your persist@nt voice when trying to bring news to our @ttention, your view @nd opinions @lso. I do not @gree with @ny ch@ric@ture which sl@nders @nyone. They’re m@ny I’ve seen over the ye@rs @nd with e@ch one, I’ve never seen the point of them. @ll it does is c@use unnecess@ry @rguement. Which brings me to express my point of those ch@ric@tures, wh@t w@s the point of wh@t he w@s trying to s@y? W@s it worth his time @nd ink on p@per? I think not. But it’s something he h@s to live with for the rest of his life on this e@rth.

@s for your concerns @bout doing something productive I do sincerely @gree with. Which is why I don’t tend to t@lk @bout politics nor wish to express my opinion on @ny of world’s m@tters for I feel it is @lso timew@sting on doing something productive.

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:51pm on March 4th, 2008
This isn’t to s@y I do not wish to le@rn @bout wh@t is going on @nd where it @ll st@rted or how it is trying to be fixed now. But th@t’s just me.

I like th@t you t@g me in some of your notes @nd w@nt to th@nk you for th@t. To be f@ir, if I c@n m@ke one suggestion to you it would be to include @n english tr@nsl@tion for wh@t you write in @r@bic for it’s @ l@ngu@ge I don’t underst@nd.

I hope you h@ve @ positive week. xxx

Brian E Wolber (Illinois Tech) wrote
at 6:37pm on March 4th, 2008
I absolutely love this note you wrote. The note brings up my opinion though, that I think all organized religion, both Christianity, Islam, Judaism, w/e, is all bogus. Religion is nothing but a tool to control people and force ideas upon a population.
I just wish more people in the Dar al-Islam, or islamic world were more moderate like you.
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 6:45pm on March 4th, 2008
I wonder if you h@ve re@d more @t your dispos@l th@n m@ny people in this world
Marwa Al-Hefnawy (no network) wrote
at 7:12pm on March 4th, 2008
I absolutely agree with you Aroob … I never been with boycotting any products … there are other ways to express our opinions and objections about things. boycotting products of whatever nationality, Danish or American harms our community first place … We are in need for these products as well as they are in need for its profit …

I am not really familiar with the Saudi community… but in Egypt for example, thousands of Egyptians are working in factories of American products such as PEPSI … So if we boycotted their products the factory would be closed and thousands of workers who have families and kids would be in the street…

So what is the point of boycotting Danish products… In addition, that would provoke them to republish their cartoons again as it happened lately… They are defending their freedom and that’s making sense….

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Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:41am on March 5th, 2008
As they saying “Every culture has its own rules and ethics, one culture may not be aware of what offends another culture, and what offends one culture may be a right in another culture”ohhhh I am having a headache!!!

Regardless whether the 12 cartoons were a serious offense to Muslims or not, how Muslims are handling the whole thing is just (stupid), it further harms the image of Muslims, and Muslim efforts are turning against Muslims, the cartoons are now everywhere, printed on many newspapers, shown on TV channels, and published on websites, more offensive cartoons are being created and published, and a campaign for supporting Danish products is running…Arooooooooooooob

Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:42am on March 5th, 2008
you have to put in mind that The Danish prime minister refused to meet the Islamic ambassadors at the beginning of this problem and if he talked to them at that time I think things would have changed.” freedom of speech” they said…I don’t know but maybe the prime minister has nothing to do coz these newspapers are like websites there and no one can stop them from publishing their own opinions…..No one of the “Free” Europe dares to discuss not offend Jews holocaust and this what they couldn’t deny even on TV so they shouldn’t say that they’re totally free I know they talk about Jesus in ways even Muslims disagree on it. But what the heck …..”Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, or Buddha himself” Jesus, Moses and Muhammad are prophets but who the hell is Buddha…I am not going to talk about it coz you already knew that.
Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:43am on March 5th, 2008
Muslims are boycotting Danish products coz they are afraid of Allah when Allah is going to ask them what they did? They kept their mouth shut and pretend that there is nothing happened.”وهذا اضعف الايمان
Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:43am on March 5th, 2008
OK, I have a different idea, instead of banning such acts “boycotting”, why not take the other direction and try to enlighten people on the true image of Islam?

Why not do what Prophet Muhammad himself used to do when someone insulted him? He didn’t try to slay those who stoned him, on the contrary he wished he could enlighten them, and why not do the same ourselves? Local Muslims could have published another newspaper on the true beliefs of Islam, instead of calling for banning and boycotting.

Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:44am on March 5th, 2008
I don’t believe that there are people still using the Free Speech argument - while if the cartoons were about me I could easily sue the newspaper according to the Danish laws and force them to publish an apology. So for Allah’s sake enough with the free speech argument. We’re not talking about freedom here we’re talking about laws. What we want is an international law that prohibits insulting Islam and its figures, and if a cretin country won’t sign on that law we’ll boycott that country. Boycotting the Danish products isn’t the primary issue here and Denmark isn’t a hostile country or enemy any way…. The violent reaction of some Muslims doesn’t represent what the majority of Muslims wanted so be cool lool
Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:44am on March 5th, 2008
And for those who attacked Islam and Muslims I’ll just ignore them because they don’t worth a reply.
P.S. We are moderate above their noses hahaha
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 4:34am on March 6th, 2008
Sam: When I mentioned the prophets and Buddah, I mentioned him on purpose and he does fit in there. I wasn’t talking about people, I was referring to religion. The four major religions in the world are Christianity followed by Islam, Judism and Buddhism. What I meant to say is, while I understand why some people are offended, you have to understand this what they did isn’t illegal. While it may be a ’sin’ to make fun of a prophet, it’s not illegal to do so in their country.

About refusing to meet with the Islamic reprisentatives, then that’s the government’s choice. They can meet whomever they want to. The FACT is, they ‘demanded’ a meeting, not requested one. Such hostile behavior will be ignored. If someone demanded to meet me, and Im just a normal person, then I’d refuse to see them because they’re just rude. ALSO, the government doesnt have to explain themselves either. If they dont want to meet then that’s that.

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 4:39am on March 6th, 2008

And about suing the newspaper, well if they said something slanderous about you, then yes, you can sue them. But what they did isn’t considered slanderous. I saw the caricatures. About that drawing of bombs and a bearded man, well… how else does the world know Muslims? As رجعيين AND the most famous Muslims… the ones that are known around the world are terrorists. Some people would like to blame 9/11 and say that it changed the world, that there weren’t any problems before. Well that’s just not true at all.
Bin Laden was already a known and wanted terrorist. I first heard about Al-Qaida when I was 8 years old, so they’re hardly anything new.
And if Muslims want to be pissed off at the world for saying bad things or drawing cartoons that offened them, then they should reconsider the stuff they teach to their kids at home and at school.
Im making a big deal out of this because it’s NOT just about cartoons.
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 4:51am on March 6th, 2008

We keep breeding hate to children at a very young age, and I dare all of you to tell me that I am wrong.

I am sick of discrimination, and this is what it is about. Some people are more than ready to hate those who are not like them. Before, white people hated black people… and racism still continues today EVEN THOUGH it is 2008! How many more years must go by before the world wakes up and realizes that it doesnt matter? It doesnt matter who is black, white, hispanic, or brown. It doesnt matter who’s Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheist… whatever. It doesnt matter if we’re Asian, European, American, African, Latin…. it just DOESNT MATTER.

I honestly dont understand why some people wont get along. For example, calling someone a ‘Jew’ would be cussing them in Saudi Arabia… and most Arab countries. Why is that? And to some people, Muslim is synonym with ‘terrorist’. Why hate?

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 5:04am on March 6th, 2008

And am I the ONLY one who wants to go to Palestine/Israel and knock some sense into both governments? They’ve been at war for such a long time now, and the Gaza situation… is just sad. I read an email a guy sent to his friend… about not having food for 4 days in a row, no water and no electricity. Why are kids dying over there? Why are kids being born into that kind of situation? It’s not right… it’s just… horrible! Being a child and growing up not knowing why there are people in the same country as you are who dont want you? And you dont understand why… you just get told that they’re bad people and you have to fight back.

Religion has nothing to do with it. Because if you look into Islam and Judism, nothing in them says to “fight” and “kill” the other side. So why do it? Why use ‘religion’ as an excuse to hate?

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 6:23am on March 6th, 2008

I say, to all Muslims, that if you want to be mad at those caricatures, then be mad at yourselves because photography and any type of drawing is against Islam if it’s a depiction of a living thing… so people, animals, and plants.

Take a look at your newspapers, magazines…etc.
If this is REALLY all about Islam, then why not fix up your mistakes before you go on attacking other countries for what you think is a ’sin’…. and it’s not a sin in their country, and it’s not even illegal.

So all your arguments, and protests are ridiculous… because part of what you’re complaining about is happening around you, but you’re not saying a thing.

Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 1:07pm on March 6th, 2008
سئل الشيخ محمد بن عثيمين السؤال التالي:

هل يجوز البقاء لي بين قوم يسبون الله عز وجل؟

فأجاب رحمه الله:

لا يجوز البقاء بين قوم يسبون الله عز وجل لقوله تعالى: وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللّهِ يُكَفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلاَ تَقْعُدُواْ مَعَهُمْ حَتَّى يَخُوضُواْ فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ إِنَّكُمْ إِذاً مِّثْلُهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ جَامِعُ الْمُنَافِقِينَ وَالْكَافِرِينَ فِي جَهَنَّمَ جَمِيعاً [النساء:140].
والله اعلم

Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 1:08pm on March 6th, 2008
فبين الله عز وجل أن خوضهم هذا ولعبهم إستهزاء بالله وآياته ورسوله وأنهم كفروا به فقال تعالى: وَلَئِن سَأَلْتَهُمْ لَيَقُولُنَّ إِنَّمَا كُنَّا نَخُوضُ وَنَلْعَبُ قُلْ أَبِاللّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ وَرَسُولِهِ كُنتُمْ تَسْتَهْزِئُونَ (65) لاَ تَعْتَذِرُواْ قَدْ كَفَرْتُم بَعْدَ إِيمَانِكُمْ [التوبة:66،65] فالإستهزاء بدين الله، أو سب دين الله أو سب الله ورسوله، أو الإستهزاء بهما، كفر مخرج من الملة. أهـ

واحذر أخي المسلم من مجالسة هؤلاء القوم حتى لا يصيبك إثم وتحل بدارك العقوبة.

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:29pm on March 6th, 2008
I understand.
Fine, those who dont want to be considered munafigeen (hypocritics) can move back to their countries. Quit their jobs, drop out of school…etc. I mean, isnt this what the Sheikh you quoted is saying? Isnt that what the verses of Qur’an you quoted are saying?

واحذر أخي المسلم من مجالسة هؤلاء القوم حتى لا يصيبك إثم وتحل بدارك العقوبة
Islam claims to be a religion of equality “دين المساواة” but it hardly is, from my point of view. Because… it keeps saying things like.. stay away from Jews, fight Jews, dont stay with anyone who isn’t a Muslim, dont befriend a non-Muslim…etc.

What is that all about huh?

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:34pm on March 6th, 2008
There is a thing called “self-control”. If you want to convert to another religion then that is up to you, and you shouldnt have to answer to anyone. If you get attacked for changing your religion then this violates your right as a human being to believe in what you want to believe without having it enforced upon you.

I have friends who are very religious, but they happen to be Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, and Scientologists… Never for a second has any of them made me felt differend, whereas, if they were in KSA right now… People would make them feel inferior. And they didnt mind being friends with me because there is nothing in their religions that say “avoid Muslims”.

So why do MUSLIMS claim their religion preaches equality, but doesnt practice it?

..=”" src=”http://profile.ak.facebook.com/profile5/1368/92/t505717914_4350.jpg”>
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 11:57pm on March 6th, 2008
Which brings me back to my point… Whether the world likes it or not, we are all the SAME. We are born the same way and one day, we’ll all die. No one is immortal because they’re special or ‘chosen’ or because they feel that their religion is the right religion. EVERYONE believes their religion is the right religion, and I think that religion isn’t a ground for discrimination. It’s just a petty excuse to discriminate.

Stop using ‘religion’ as a front. THINK about what you’re saying. How are they any different? Does another religion make them any less human? Does it make them any less good?

Sam Al Harbi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 5:20am on March 7th, 2008
it is not like avoiding..you know I will never avoid them what I ment stop believing them….and YES لافرق بين عربي واعجمي الا بالتقوى :-)
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 3:41am
aroob, every example of people you use in regards to Islam is always in a negative voice. Do you not hear the discrimination there? Must you use every bad example to try and make your point good?
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 9:46am
Nill, I know what you mean. I did that intentionally to point out that Muslims have their own flaws too. No one is perfect. BUT I said in the beginning that SOME people irritate me. I didn’t say ”every Muslim”.

I don’t believe I was discriminating. I merely wanted to point out that we are all human beings and we are all the same. Some people choose to hate, discriminate, and create a problem where there is none.

What people should really care about are things like… Global warming, weapons of mass destrcution, nuclear plants, war, poverty, fammine, HIV, illiteracy, …etc. Why wont people focus all their energies on ending those things instead of making a fuss about drawings on a piece of paper WHICH isn’t considered illegal in the country they were drawn in?!!!

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 11:40am
I want to try something and I wonder what you will see…

Nill, I know what you mean. No one is perfect. BUT I said in the beginning that SOME people irritate me.

I merely wanted to point out that we are all human beings and we are all the same.

What people should really care about are things like… Global warming, weapons of mass destrcution, nuclear plants, war, poverty, fammine, HIV, illiteracy, …etc. Why wont people focus all their energies on ending those things instead of making a fuss about drawings on a piece of paper?

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 12:09pm
I dont see anything.
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 12:38pm
at least that is an honest answer.
*********

Between You and Aroob Aloofi

Today at 12:51pm
“at least that is an honest answer”

What do you mean?

Today at 12:58pm
In regards to what you do not see.
Today at 1:04pm
and what exactly was I supposed to see?

And you think I am discriminating… that I’m against Muslims. But I’m not.

Today at 1:13pm
There is no supposing here, from my view. I wondered and got the answer you gave.

I never said you’re against Muslims, if I intended to say that I would have. I pointed out that your every example when reffering to Muslims in your note, continued with your responses, is in a negative voice and then asked whether you heard the discrimination in that. You gave your answer also.

Today at 2:53pm
Because you’re the only one who thinks I was discriminating. Believe what you will. I used a current example that is true, NOT hypothetical… and a great one at that.

It shows me how troubled the world really is. Do you think it’s ok if people cause harm to othes all because of a drawing?!

Where is the negativity in opposing that? You tell me.

Today at 3:24pm
I did not see nor express the negativity of opposing it. Seen as though you ask, here is my answer.

Of my beliefs, I do not believe it is permitable nor even worthy to cause any one harm in any which way. In reference to this charicature, which I have not even seen nor do I want to see to spare myself being even slightly (emphasis on the minute extent of intention even when trying to protect myself) from being offended.

I do not agree that people should cause harm on anyone. as much as I do not agree that people should provoke others in a way that could in turn, provoke harm to themselves. If you want to know why, and though I will answer before you do, it is because I believe the fairness in everything. Fairness, stemming from truth and honesty because if you know of an outcry or outrage, more than likely it is apparent and exploited to promote this effect. However directly or indirectly.

For example:

I hate to be tickled. If I so much as warn someone who I FEEL might just want to tickle me (I used to scrap with my brothers a lot) I will tell them that I hate to be tickled so don’t do it. They then know that I hate it and if they then tickle me, I not only take offense by it but realise their bad intention towards me.
*************** THIS IS WHERE PRIV@TE MESS@GING TOOK PL@CE ******************

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 3:01pm
Everyone, you are entitled to believe what you will. The example I used, “boycotting Danish products in response to a simple caricature” shows me how messed up some people are. I am NOT talking about Muslims specifically. I am talking about narrow-minded people who use a small thing as an excuse to cause harm to others.

This example does involve Muslims, since some of them were the ones offended by the caricature, however… Causing harm to Danish companies… Now you tell me, how does that solve the problem? Do Danish company owners secretly hire that artist to draw something that is LEGAL for him to do so?

If you know ANYTHING about Islam, you would know that the Muslims (who are attacking the newspaper and the Danish companies) are wrong. Because in Islam, drawings that represent any living entity (human, animal, plant) is prohibited. And I dont mean a ’sin’, I mean absolutely NOT allowed.

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 3:06pm
They attacked a part of a drawing, ignoring the fact that the drawing itself shouldnt have been drawn, because the imitation of a living being is prohibited.

It’s like telling someone that drinking alcohol from a glass made of gold/silver is not ok… IGNORING the fact that it doesnt matter what you use to drink it… a glass, gold, silver, plastic, paper cup… Because in the end, drinking alcohol is prohibited.. a major sin.

(In Islam, drinking alcohol is a sin… and so is using utensils made out of gold or silver).

You can say whatever you want. Believe what you will, that is your own right.
But to be mad at another country for something that was done, that is LEGAL there is just absurd. And causing harm to people who have nothing to do with it (the companies) is absurd as well. And attacking the newspaper for something they can legally print is also absurd. Attacking the artist for practicing his right to draw whatever he wants is ALSO absurd.

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:07pm
Everyone, you are entitled to believe what you will **of course we are**. The example I used, “boycotting Danish products in response to a simple caricature” shows me how messed up some people are. **some being the Muslims you so like to emphasise** I am NOT talking about Muslims specifically. **You didn’t specifically talk about anyone else other than Muslims** I am talking about narrow-minded people who use a small thing as an excuse to cause harm to others. **Which applies to this Danish cartoonist too then?**
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:08pm
This example does involve Muslims,**and whoever made the charicatures** since some of them were the ones offended by the caricature,**I’m sure you would be offended by a charicature specifically set out to offend you too** however… Causing harm to Danish companies**which Danish companies are you speaking of?**… Now you tell me, how does that solve the problem?**If you are referring to the response made by some Muslims to these charicatures, the problem usually has a beginning** Do Danish company owners secretly hire that artist to draw something **it wouldn’t surprise me** that is LEGAL for him to do so?**It is probably more not illegal for one to exploit freedom of expression but I doubt there is the law that states that it is legal for Danish people to offend others by insulting them with a charicature of a prophet**
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:08pm
If you know ANYTHING about Islam,**seen as you profess to this, then I suggest you use reference to what you refer to regarding Islam** you would know that the Muslims (who are attacking the newspaper and the Danish companies) are wrong.**I agree** Because in Islam, drawings that represent any living entity (human, animal, plant) is prohibited.**Please state which Sura & ayah you got this from** And I dont mean a ’sin’, I mean absolutely NOT allowed. **The show us where that is written and let us see for ourselves**
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:09pm
They attacked a part of a drawing, ignoring the fact that the drawing itself shouldnt have been drawn, because the imitation of a living being is prohibited.**So what is your point then? It’s bad that some Muslims respond to something they are offended by and which they are well aware that is prohibited?**

It’s like telling someone that drinking alcohol from a glass made of gold/silver is not ok… IGNORING the fact that it doesnt matter what you use to drink it… a glass, gold, silver, plastic, paper cup… Because in the end, drinking alcohol is prohibited.. a major sin.**This example is quite far fetched. It doesn’t link the point you are trying to make**

(In Islam, drinking alcohol is a sin… and so is using utensils made out of gold or silver).**Please state where so we can learn**

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 4:09pm
You can say whatever you want.**Really? Because so far you are against Muslims from saying what they want** Believe what you will, that is your own right.**Then why are you still wronging others for this right?**
But to be mad at another country for something that was done,**I hear female circumcision still occurs in countries where it is legal** that is LEGAL there is just absurd.**Your opinion is not the be all and end all** And causing harm to people who have nothing to do with it (the companies) is absurd as well**You would do well to work for them too**. And attacking the newspaper for something they can legally print is also absurd.**Hmmm** Attacking the artist for practicing his right to draw whatever he wants is ALSO absurd.**HMMMM**
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 4:59pm
If you know ANYTHING about Islam,**seen as you profess to this, then I suggest you use reference to what you refer to regarding Islam**

I do not profess. I know.

I suggest you pick up a copy of the Qur’an and learn more about your religion.
What I mentioned are basics in Islam, which you should already know. If you don’t already know, there isn’t an English version of it. The Qur’an clearly states that it only in Arabic. So, you have to learn it in order to practise your religion, which you do not know much about.
{إنا أنزلناه قرآنا ً عربيا ً لعلكم تعقلون}
- Surat Yusif, Aya (2).

Get the copy by: مجمع الملك فهد لطباعة المصحف الشريف
And تفسير ابن كثير

Nil, this note has nothing to do with religion. Don’t try to make it about something it’s not.

Jung Yunho (South Korea) wrote
at 5:07pm
그녀를 무시합니다… 네?
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 5:21pm
I know, but others may not, and it would be polite to all regarded as being tagged in your note if you would share the references you make. You might even have it wrong in context, I’m not saying you are. I’m saying it is a possibility. Don’t you think it is fair?

How can you say it has nothing to do with religion when you pick specific points regarding a situation because of the issue you oppose?

Double standards much? lol

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 5:22pm
haha 왜? 아러소 윤니 야~ :D
군찬나요 :)
Jung Yunho (South Korea) wrote
at 5:59pm
nilufer, aroob said:
“I guess what I’m trying to say is… why not do something good instead of doing something bad?”
“Dont you think that it’s time for something remarkable to happen fi el3alam? And from US. We’re all intelligent people. I know I might sound lame right now… But cant we think rationally and spread positive ideas wherever we go?”

didnt u read that? or were u too focused on arguing about something that isnt the issue?

Park Yuchun (South Korea) wrote
at 6:03pm
자기야 I love ur note :-)
if there were more people in the world like you, thinking the same way & doing what u do everyday,the world would be better. 하자만, 그녀를 무시합니다. Some people argue for the sake of arguing 네?
Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 6:24pm
Dear Jung,

I read everything that is the note provided by aroob and by every response since.

Correct me if I’m wrong, I am exercising my freedom of speech here. =D

If you can point out the “something” which isn’t the issue here, without speculating more than I have said, I’d be very grateful. xx

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 8:40pm
The “something” is religion. I used an example to talk about human behavior.
And you’re making it a discussion about religion. There is no double standards here and I resent you saying I’d do well working for those companies. You’re trying to make this about religion, but it has nothing to do with religion at all.

What is it you think I oppose? Because from everything you wrote in this note, it is obvious to me that you don’t have any idea. You read what I wrote and saw it from one point of view. Clearly, you are a subjective reader.
Go read the first two comments I got about this note.

I’d like to point out that I am the person who wrote this note. So when I say it’s not about ISLAM or MUSLIMS, then it isn’t. Don’t argue what I wrote as if you know what was going on in my mind when that note was written, or what my intentions were when I posted it, because you have no idea.

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 9:12pm
It’s a wonder, Jung answers for you and you answer for Jung. What is next? I am intrigued.

aroob, you mentioned first of all that some of us were tagged for something & and you wanted our opinion. If it is specifically my opinion you didn’t want then just say so or better still, don’t ask of it in future. I can’t speak for anyone but myself if you think I can then that is the mistake you make of me.

This matter is a good example where our generation could really come together to debate. No one is better than the other but different perspectives can be valuable when the intentions match. I do not oppose you intention of helping and serving others as a voice of reason, our reasons just differ slightly and even then I am grateful for another voice when not my own.

I do hope that people will recognise the malice and harm they cause for one another whether it is regarding a charicature or not. One way to do it to cast opinions to one side…

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 9:19pm
and to embrace knowledge from the source. From which ever source and where it originates from to see better the whole picture rather than just a part of it. If you disagree with me on this is doesn’t mean that I am wrong. It is an experience from my perspective, like it or not.

Maybe it is just my preference, I love to be informed, not dictated to. Just because you write something off as “absurd” in your opinion it doesn’t mean that it actually is, and if you wish to believe “for arguments sake” that I respond then you are easily mistaken.

In everything I’ve responded to you and your friend on, it is you that has made the misleading example of making this something it is not. I did not mention Islam out of context here but wished to suggest that as a person who writes, and writes so well! Where are the references of what you suggest? Surely there are refs and it is you who mentioned of such FIRST that I asked of these references. What is so hard to see here?…

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 9:29pm
My reasoning or your antagonism?

If you sincerely believe that I have misunderstood everything you have written, that is your belief. One thing I can do is agree to disagree because it isn’t important for me to be right, it is far more important of me to be honest.

and as for me being a subjective reader, then I would ask you, how many perspectives do you write from that doesn’t belong to you? Have you not considered that you are a subjective writer?

The first two comments you got on this note was from me, so be specific.

If you do not wish to for me to express my right to freedom of speech, just say. I can handle it and won’t be offended.

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 9:54pm
“It’s a wonder, Jung answers for you and you answer for Jung. What is next? I am intrigued.”
That’s us stating the obvious.

The first two comments were yours. I was specific when I said read the first two. How is it that now, Islam is in the picture?

READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF MY NOTE.
This is what I want opinions on. I chose people of my generation to see what positive and productive ideas we can come up with to make this world a better place. I didn’t write this note for anyone to start discussing religion. I said “let’s spread positive ideas” not “hey! Let’s talk about Islam!”

Dont leave me any more comments about this issue. I keep repeating myself over an over again. You’re opening a door to a whole new discussion and cant seem to see that it has nothing to do with my note.

Nilüfer Ilgüy wrote
at 9:59pm
Sometimes stating the obvious doesn’t even work. I suggest you read your own last paragraph. Good night. xx
****THIS IS WHERE SHE RESPONDS @G@IN BUT THEN EDITS THE L@ST MESS@GE
Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 10:16pm
“I dont tend to talk about politics nor wish to express my opinion on any of the world’s matters for I feel it is also time wasting on doing something productive.”

That is what I wanted you to read when I said “read the first two comments.”
You see, unlike you, I don’t think it’s a waste of my time to care about the world, and express my opinion on how we can make it a better place.

I’ve been humoring you all day out of curiousity, wondering what you think is worth your time… what you consider ‘productive’.

Now I know.

Don’t leave me any more comments on this note. Your idea of ‘productive’ is extremely flawed.

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 10:20pm
My friends, this topic has 48 comments. I hope that after this, I will get positive ideas from all of you on what our generation can do to make this world a better place.

————–
DO NOT LEAVE ME ANY COMMENTS BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS IT IS GOING TO BE ON TOPIC.
————–

*all off topic comments will be removed.*

HERE ENDS THE UPD@TED @ND EDITED L@ST MESS@GE***************************

Aroob Aloofi (Saudi Arabia) wrote
at 10:01pm
Everyone, in case I haven’t made myself clear before…

————–
DO NOT LEAVE ME ANY COMMENTS BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS IT IS GOING TO BE ON TOPIC. AND IF YOU CAN’T TELL WHAT THAT IS….. THEN DONT COMMENT ME AT ALL. DO NOT MISTAKE THIS NOTE AS A DOOR FOR A DISCUSSION ABOUT ISLAM and MUSLIMS. THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT RELIGION SO DONT LEAVE ME COMMENTS ABOUT IT.
I MEAN IT.
————–
MY QUESTION IS… WHAT CAN OUR GENERATION DO TO MAKE THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE?
————–

*all off topic comments will be removed. This note has 47 comments, none of which contain suggestions. If you dont have one, then dont comment.*

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Everything Works Out.

March 10, 2008 at 12:39 am (Comebacks, Experiences & Perspectives, Herstory, Reason-able, Signs)

 I’ve spent this last week in limbo concerning a lot to do with my circumstances. Some by external influence, some not, some I’m even contemplating. Truth be known I’ve neglected all gym visits this week and my diet has not been a good example but even still, I’ve given my mind a workout. It’s a wonder what one can learn in a week! I’m very content with where I am at with myself, in between learning and experiencing that is. I’ve so much to learn still and realise that effort has to always be 100% otherwise there is that lack of a better word or deed.

Efe the bombastically driven is home again, the time since he was last here feels nothing more than a week but that’s the gift of where time stops for no man. I worked Friday evening with our new girl who is over from Istanbul. Anne has her hospital appointment tomorrow to further explore the condition of her thyroid which is becoming more toxic to her than anything. I hope for a clear outcome and a speedy recovery but until that is as certain as it can be, we all have to pull together.

Two stories spring to my mind as I type this, one from my past and one from my present. Maybe this is a true interpretation, maybe misleading, maybe I will see tomorrow to make more sense from it. The possibilities are endless…

It was September 1992 when Efe and I joined Holy Trinity (CoE) Primary school. I found it funny that I took a boy’s place who left that I knew from childhood friends in a different neighbourhood. I was nervous of the change on many levels, we were still struggling as a family being torn. I enjoyed Elliot Bank but we left abruptly to prevent outside influences from taking the piss furthermore. The boy from the “Copeman” (how apt!) neighbourhood advised me on my new peers, who was a joker, troublemaker, best at football, best teacher’s pet, et cetera.

HT is a small school. Only one class per year and not even catering facilities, those who required school dinners would walk to the nearest high school to have lunch. The local library and swimming baths parallel to us, it was easy learning in many ways. Our classes filled with students from all sorts of backgrounds, spanning a few continents even! It was a cosy time in my life, in hindsight but the 9 year old of me would tell you different.

During the afternoon part of our day, before playtime, I was called to the head’s office. I was glad to get out of the lesson for Kings and Queens of England never fascinated me in the slightest, but then again… Why the head?! Did I do something wrong? Has something happened to my brothers? My mother or father??? The churning in my stomach in the 10 yards it took to get to the head’s office made me fear the worst.

“Hello Nilüfer, please take a seat.”“Ok… Is there something the matter?” I asked with the 10 yards fear.

“Not at all! I wanted to see how you have been settling in, are you enjoying your time here?”

“Yeahh… Everyone is really nice.”

“Good, you must let me know if you feel awkward or have any problems. Well, Nilüfer, the reason why I’ve called you in is because I need your help. We have a new student joining your class on Monday. She is from Northern Cyprus and doesn’t comprehend a word of English. She is your age and since you are our only student with fluent Turkish, I need your help with helping her settle in.”My fear left me instantly as she explained more about this new student. I felt honoured for the responsibility and told my head teacher I looked forward to helping as much as I could. All the people who sat at the same table as me gave me the Spanish Inquisition on what happened, so I told them. In turn we talked about the sudden change which was going to happen to our class, again!

Bearing in mind it was probably only a couple of months into having moved there myself, I was already appointed to a responsibility. I was excited for being like a “big sister” to a newbie. Her name is Bahar (meaning “Spring”) and she was timid by nature. We were sat together and I had permission to talk in class as I had to translate the lessons and explain meanings, also had to check over her work to see if she was on the same wavelength as us.

After a while the shine began to wear off the liberties I had over my peers and constantly having to double, double check everything I said and did, for myself and Bahar. I began feeling the strain of having a shadow in all aspects of school. I was encouraged and congratulated by so many teachers for being “so helpful” but they didn’t know how claustrophobic I felt to be at beck and call everyday.

Bahar and I resided in the same hostel at the time too. She, with her family waiting for permanent housing, living in the cramped conditions of such life. We lived on the floor below and anne being the polite, helpful, person she was (and still is) would have tea with her mum where they bonded over circumstances.

I was only at HT for two academic years (the last two before secondary school) and for a year and a half of those academic years, I was Bahar’s chaperone, translator, “friend”. The use of inverted commas because of the friendship forced of the circumstances but I can admit that I wasn’t really a friend to her, to much of my own disappointment. But that’s life in some aspects I guess. I felt bitter and trapped by my responsibility and I should’ve known better but I didn’t.

Years later when we got the shops and I took on the business’ with the same outlook of responsibility, I was reminded of this part of my past when the new girl working in the chippy arrived. She has broken English and is here to study the language so when she goes back to Istanbul it will help her life there. Originally from Mongolia, it is a fascinating chain of events that occurred since I stopped working and began thinking about working once again.

There are many reasons to explain my departure but all are epic in their own right. The aftermath of such reasons allowed me the “breathing space” relief of deciding (without having to work) what I would do with my days. The sinking feeling that I could be making yet another mistake worried me so much but I had to stick to my decisions, either way. Searching for a sign at every turn where I thought there were none.

The Mongolian girl who arrived a few weeks ago came with the sole intention of getting into a language school to help her English. She is the responsibility of herself first and foremost, my dad’s friend in Istanbul secondly, and thirdly of my father for his friend asked of this from him. Baba arranged for her accommodation at a “friend of a friend’s” in the meantime. Anne has been looking to hire someone too and once the arguments died down (between baba) she hired “bogey”. Don’t get me wrong, there is no malice intention by putting that name in commas! It is simply how the girl’s name is pronounced.

In the first week of her working with us it became evident of the declining word of the man’s house she was staying in. The word of such man who had ulterior motives behind the exploitation that is a possibility, under the circumstances. Anne would come home and tell me about her day, at first I thought if she was having a dig at me but then the reasons appeared. A week and a half went by before I pieced the puzzle together and stepped back to view the result…

“You know Nil, I’m not happy with how her name sounds. She realises what the pronunciation means in English.”

“Yeah, I really wanted to laugh when she told me her name!” saying as I laughed.

“Don’t be so mean! I’ve given her a new name anyhow. We’re calling her Cicek from now on!”

The next evening baba tells me that Cicek’s mother’s name is the same as anne’s! Which would seem like a coincidence but I don’t believe in them. The name anne chose for her means “flower” in English and it’s all meshed together rather well, these circumstances.

Cicek is hardworking and has easily bonded with us now. She no longer lives in one of the rooms above our shop as it was clear that this man she was staying with turned out to be a bit of a crook. She is happy to work with us and we with her too until she saves enough money to enroll in a language school. Everyone is really happy with how this is all panning out so I let go of that guilty feeling that I’d somehow left anne in the lurch with shop but the guilt of not working in the business’ at all still a stamp in my heart that I cannot cover.

I’ve reasoned with these decisions in many ways and still looking for my signs there being none other than chores at home which has occupied my time more. Trying to help Bobo at every turn too as begins the stages of the big physical and mental changes, puberty has begun for him and I can’t say I’d like to play a fanfare for him because he’s got a right gob on him these days which I fantasise about slapping. Violience is never the answer though, so don’t worry. I keep my hands in my pockets when I’m trying to reason with him.

Then comes the second story in all this which begun when I changed my mind about attending three birthday parties last night. I had been invited earlier on in the week and though I RSVP’d as “attending”, if it weren’t for the exhausting conversation had with Efe and Bobo yesterday afternoon, I think I still would have gone. After these conversations I chose a night at the cinema instead and got myself showered and ready to leave for that intention.

Putting my shoes on at the door Bobo approached me to inquire where I was going, I didn’t want to tell him as it almost always feels like I’m rubbing it in his face like “I’m going, you’re not, ha-ha”.

“Ohhhhhhhh I forgot to tell Efe to go to the shop at 4pm! Baba wanted to do a food shop whilst Efe took care of the shop!” he tells me just as I’m thinking about sweet or savoury popcorn.

Plugged into my iPod as I walk down the hill towards our businesses, the minute I see baba alone in the DC I changed my mind once again of my evening plans. I went nextdoor to the chippy to tell anne that I wasn’t going out so not to give me money as I wouldn’t need it now. She sympathised with the fact that it was too cold anyhow and a trek. Making myself some scampi I dodged glances from the queue in the shop to get a drink and a scoop of chips.

We closed the shop together and then went to get food for home. During this mission I listened to baba tell me of something that happened during his day.

“Friday evening just as I was closing up, a customer came in to drop off a suit and trousers. I asked for his number so I could print his ticket from the computer on Saturday morning.” NB: We have a computerised ticket system. Customers are stored by their names and contact numbers. If they’ve not come to us before, they get an account set up with us.

“He insisted that the garments are ready for collection Saturday, so we left it at that. On Saturday morning I made up his ticket from the computer and his garments went in with the first load of drycleaning. It was pressed and packaged and then hung on the rail. So this evening **he’s talking about yesterday evening here** when I went to shut down the computer and till, I remembered about these garments so I looked for them on the rail.” NB: When a garment is collected from our shop the ticket for the garment which lists all the pieces of clothing, is taken off the packaging and kept for our records. This ticket has a specific number for the garments on the computer system. It is put through the system at the end of the day (as are many other tickets) to calculate the takings of the day. The reason for keeping the tickets until the very end of the day is because people tend to send other family members or friends to pick up garments. If they then come into our shop without their customer ticket then they can’t argue that we’ve still got/lost their garments as we show them the shop’s ticket. Meaning collection has taken place.

“I couldn’t find the shop ticket for this man’s garments either. I tried to look him up on the system.” NB: Customer records can be found on the system by three ways. Their ticket number, their telephone number, or their name. Out of all of these we tend to remember the name more.

“His ticket didn’t show on the system either. What do you think could’ve happened to them?” he asked me and this is my reasoning for this which also concerns the girl who works for us in the DC.

1. She gave the garments, took the money for the garments, not put the money in the till, and destroyed the shop ticket.

2. She knew the customer and didn’t take the payment as a gesture of freebie.

3. Either way, it is stealing.

So when baba went to clean the machinery this morning he also sift through yesterday’s trash to locate the shop ticket for this particular customer. Unfortunately for Vickey, he didn’t find it. But, he found an old individual garment ticket for this customer and called him. The customer expressed that he did indeed collect his garments and told baba that he came around 14:30. This was the time that baba was on a delivery so Vickey was in the shop alone.

All in all there is a major possibility that Vickey stole the money. Reason being unknown to us but it doesn’t matter, our trust is completely lost in her now. When she started working for us anne didn’t like her because “things keep going missing”. Though we knew she blamed Vickey but baba gave her the benefit of the doubt. Now this has happened, it’s a confirmation of V’s intentions.

This afternoon when Efe and I spoke with baba we decided that V would be sacked. There is no way that a customer garment account would go missing on our system, unless it is done unintentionally. In saying that Efe also expressed that he’s staying with us until his holidays are over so he doesn’t mind working until then. I then too offered my assistance after Efe leaves for uni again, meaning I’m back.

I’m going to be working again. My prayers have been answered. I’ve seen my sign.

It’s fascinating baba then turned to me to tell me something which I doubt will ever leave me.

“God certainly works in mysterious ways. I was fixated on finding out if that customer collected his garments and find out instead that an employee has been stealing from us.”

There are lessons to be learnt in everything that happens in our lives, one has just got to be willing to learn. We have a responsibility to be noble, respectful, and caring towards each other no matter what. Sometimes we neglect these core givens to pursue a selfish agenda but in the end, we will learn. Have hope, my friends.

Nil xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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For him.

March 4, 2008 at 9:36 pm (Experiences & Perspectives)

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Call It How You See It - Part V

March 4, 2008 at 9:34 pm (Experiences & Perspectives)

My childhood is a nice place that once was. I don’t believe it could be relived nor replaced, engraved is how it’s meant to be. I loved and loathed. I had my ups and downs. I have beautiful & ugly images which contradict the rational mind yet from memory I recall no complaints, for now.


I was 11 years old when my dad bought a telly for me. It sat on a moveable shelf which my mum drilled into the wall for me and it was bliss. I learnt to strain my hearing to understand dialogue, of course everyone mastered this when one was meant to be “asleep” as it was a school night. Even still, this was something which annoyed me at the time. Then I lay in my bed and watched with no sound when I heard others stirring, lip reading what I could and improvising the rest. Come morning when woken by anne, would be a severe telling off (for a youthful mind every telling off was severe!) as I’d long fallen asleep with the telly on. Busted! The only way to feel good about that era was if there was a movie which was worth watching.
This was the era for Heartbreak High, Hollyoaks, Backstreet Boys posters, Scrapbooking, Music Box, Leonardo DiCaprio posters from The Basketball Diaries and What’s Eating Gilbert Grape (another two of my favourites), channel 5, journals with little padlocks, dancing shoes and leotards, Body Shop canvass bags, Karaoke with Danyel & Sema, writing letters, changing Bobo’s nappies, my grandmother dying, my name necklace, playing indoor tennis in our corridor, painting my nails metallic blue, eating screwballs, I could go on!
But most of all, this was an era when I stayed up late to watch films. Bedtime stories stopped in one way and started another. This was when BBC1 would show Rain Man every other month, when all I knew of Westerns was The Duke, Backdraft, This Boy’s Life, Viva Las Vegas, Thelma & Louise,Murial’s Wedding, yes; a good era methinks. But not any of these could top the list if it wasn’t for…

Strictly Ballroom


A canny film about ballroom dancing and how love grew between an unlikely couple. You can take your mock 50s Dirty Dancing and shove it for all I care! Scott and Fran did it for me in a way DD never did. I love how the music occupies Scott’s mind when thinking about how he lost at Waratah and a beautiful soundtrack of cultures merges between the couple as they find their feet together.
I’ve stayed up late many a night to watch this film, always giggling to myself for the randomness of it being on so late when everyone was asleep so I could enjoy it without the interruption or ridicule from my brothers. My mind would drift to my own dancing memories of past shows, past competition, Ms Booth encouraging me like she did when I thought I couldn’t carry on, couldn’t take anymore.
This film being my one true time warp to a place and time when I began listening to myself. That tiny voice which can only be heard when I allowed happy memories comfort me, blocking out all other complexes to do with school, home, friends…. All I needed.
I’ve never owned this on DVD and doubt I ever will because I decided a few weeks ago that I didn’t want to own experiences anymore. Even through film, I hope to experience not these same experiences because one can never go back, but to make new memories in any which way I can with the ones I love.
                          *                *               *


I found this film on YouTube months ago and watch it now and again when I need to see Scott and Fran. Enjoy them when you can. xx

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